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Ann Théato, International Psychic Medium and Spiritual Tutor, investigates psychic development, mediumship techniques, and paranormal science, so that you can come to understand your own innate psychic ability and expand your knowledge, whilst learning to develop a curious mind.

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TRANSCRIPT

Hello everybody! My name is Ann Theato and welcome to the Psychic Matters Podcast – episode number 52!

For all of you out there, who may be grieving this Christmas, perhaps you have lost someone very dear to you recently, or perhaps it’s been several years now since your loved one has passed away, but at times of family gatherings or special occasions throughout the year, you feel their absence very strongly, and maybe you feel as if your grief has not ever left, or lessened in any way, then this is the podcast for you.  Rudy Hunter is on the show.  Rudy is a Body Work Teacher, an incredible Healer & an Energy Worker, and in this brilliant podcast episode, Rudy will lead you through three very unique, very personal to you, healing processes, to help you move through your own personal grief.

THIS PARTICULAR PODCAST EPISODE COMES WITH A WARNING, NOT ALL OF MY PODCASTS – JUST THIS PARTICULAR ONE.   BOTH RUDY AND I ASK YOU TO PLEASE NOT LISTEN TO THIS PODCAST IF YOU ARE EITHER DRIVING OR OPERATING MACHINERY.  SO IF YOU ARE DRIVING, OR OPERATING MACHINERY OR DOING ANY ACTIVITY WHICH NEEDS YOUR FULL ATTENTION AND FOCUS, PLEASE SWITCH US OFF NOW, AND LISTEN TO THIS EPISODE AT A TIME WHEN YOU ARE IN A SAFE PLACE AND YOU CAN SAFELY PARTAKE IN THE EXERCISES THAT RUDY WILL BE LEADING YOU THROUGH.  Thank you.

So just before we get into the episode – a quick announcement – have you ever heard of THE MEDIUMSHIP HOUR – yes, it’s one of the web’s best kept secrets.  Now I don’t know why it is so secret – but not many people seem to know about it – I know I mentioned it a couple of podcasts ago but I thought that I would take the opportunity to mention it again on this one – every Tuesday evening at 7pm UK time/2pm EST/11am PST, on the internet, I hold a FREE one-hour event called The Mediumship Hour – I work usually with either Lesley Malone and Tyrone Cusack, two amazing mediums, and we spend that hour bringing messages through from communicators in the spirit world to the audience in the Zoom room – so please do join us for that – it happens EVERY TUESDAY throughout the year – and of course, everyone is very welcome.  This coming Tuesday which is the 21^st December, all three of us will be taking the platform, myself, Lesley Malone and Tyrone Cusack – we’ll all be demonstrating Mediumship in a Christmas special, which will run for 90 minutes, we all three work in very different ways, so it should be very interesting to watch three different mediums working.  So If that is something you’d like to check out – you can find the Zoom joining details on my website under EVENTS. If you miss the Christmas event, really don’t worry – we are there every single Tuesday throughout the year.  So, if you are curious about mediumship, or perhaps you are hoping to get a message or a contact from one of your loved ones in the spirit world, may you are someone who can’t get to a church or a centre, or you just want to come along and watch to see what it’s all about – you are more than welcome.  Head to anntheato.com EVENTS and you can pick up the Zoom joining details there.

Meanwhile, here is this week’s episode, with my incredible guest, Rudy Hunter.

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Ann

Rudy Hunter is with me in the studio today. Hello, Rudy, how are you doing?

Rudy

Hi, Ann I’m good, it’s delightful to be with you and to be back, it’s really, really a treat.

Ann

It’s just great to have you, it’s been about a year actually. And what a year it’s been, I know that there have been some incredible things that have happened…

Rudy

Yes, yes indeed!

Ann

So, let’s address those head on. We, you, have lost your best friend and husband, a great friend to many, many people who may be listening to this podcast and possible future friend to people who are also listening, George Koury, your husband, what a great loss he is and I know you only lost him 8 weeks ago Rudy, so it’s very, very early days.

Rudy 

Yes, very fresh, very weepy. Very mourny. Yes, it’s been a, it’s been a tough year.

Ann

I know and you are just so wonderful to come on here. Because I know you want to talk about grief, and what you’ve learned through the process of, well, not even what you’ve learned, what you’re beginning to understand more and more, and I know that you are a healer, and that you have some wonderful techniques to share with the listeners as well. So, this should be a fascinating episode.

Rudy 

Well, we are we are gonna have fun, even though the whole topic doesn’t sound like, it sounds like the opposite of fun.

Ann

Yeah.

Rudy

And, and I’m gonna do some processes for folks as well, because there’s, George is not the first person in my life that I’ve lost. I’ve lost a whole selection of friends. And ironically, George and I, when we, when we were first together, I came down to New York, from Toronto, and the very first thing we were, we were running a healing circle for gay men in Manhattan during the height of the AIDS crisis, for folks who couldn’t get into, didn’t have access to even, alternative health care or spiritual support. So, we ran a healing circle. And we were, we were burying a lot of people. And I used to say to us, oh, wow, this is this is a great start to our relationship. I mean, that’s just good, you know, are we ever going out for dinner or going to do anything fun, dammit?!  So, we got very, we got very familiar with the process. And through the years, you know, we have all, there’s a spoiler alert about grief that I think everybody needs to know, because technically, we do know it as people. But it’s in the furthest back recesses in the cupboard in our mind, that because we don’t want to think about it, we will all, with zero exceptions, I’ll give that to, give that to you in writing, we will all grieve people who leave.  We will be leaving ourselves, but we will all be going through this process. Some of us effortlessly, some of us briefly, some of us clutching and screaming, and some of us well, probably most of us, crying. But there’s not a person who doesn’t get touched by this. So, it’s an inevitability, and there are things to know about it, that help along the way. I mean, being a being a new way to work. The one thing I didn’t plan for, I plan for everything else in creation, but not this. I very quickly went on a search to other widowers and widows, and said, okay, I need data here. How do you navigate this thing? How do you, how do you do mornings? How do you do night times? How do you do the week and trembly parts of the day? How do you deal with something when you get triggered with an overflow of memories? And that’s been really helpful. And good, wonderful meaning, sweet people have given me awkward, terrible advice, which I, which is fine, because we all do, we don’t know. Nobody knows what to say. So that’s a good thing to know. Nobody knows what to say to you.

Ann

It’s hard to know. Because we want to comfort, don’t we? We want to say something to reach out to you, to hold your heart but how do we do that effectively? What have you learned from that? What, what are your, what is your advice?

Rudy

Well, my advice is from, from this side of the fence, is to focus on the sweetness. I have been inundated with sweetness from George’s friends. And they were George’s friends and my friends, and we did a lot of our life as a unit. So, it’s, there’s a lot of lovely intermingling. But the sweetness has been epic. Even the awkward, terrible advice given from an open, lovely heart, has been sometimes unbearably difficult to take in. So that’s been a little exquisite. And there’s one other piece of advice that does rise up from very wise people.  And I wish I, I wish I was clever enough to have come on, come up with this piece of advice, but I’m stealing it as of today, and I will give it to people for forever. Everybody has to find their own way through grief. Because it’s very personal, it’s very unique. And the exploring of your way to do it, starts to bring back a little essence of control in a terrible situation. And not all grief comes from terrible situations, a lot of grief comes from people who’ve been sick for donkey’s years, and they eventually pass. And it’s still sad, and people still grieve, but it isn’t, it isn’t a car accident or a sudden illness or a fall off a cliff. The other thing to know is that there’s a way, thankfully, I have done this for years, I learned this years ago at an old NLP course. Thank you, NLP, for this.  They had a very complicated process called pre- grieving. And I started doing it immediately after the course, because I saw the substantial relationships in my life, when those folks leave it, we are lost, there’s a section of time where we’re lost, and we don’t know what to do. By pre-grieving, by imagining how we will do without that person, whether it’s your children or your dog, or your husband or your wife, or your brother or your sister or whoever it is, what we really do is, we prep the nervous system to be ready when it’s necessary. So, the, the amount of shock, one of the things about losing George from the bank out from everybody, is the amount of shock that they were in, because of the suddenness of it. Because I had pre-grieved him, my nervous system had a programme, it had a pattern to fall into. And this doesn’t have to be a fancy process. So, you can just imagine, and I highly recommend you do this when you’re not fighting, and when you’re, when you’re in a good day, because otherwise, if you do it in the middle of a row, it’s like well, well, he’s gonna eat the poison mushrooms I’ll serve him and then I’ll push them off a cliff and I’ll go to Vegas, or whatever it is. So, you do it when you’re in a good space, and you imagine your life with their physical presence no longer here. And that begins the surfacing of sadness and grief and wonder, and the nervous system, because they are in fact still here when you’re pre-grieving, goes on alert, that this is something that will be useful, because it will be inevitable. Either you’re leaving first, or they’re leaving first, in every relationship. And folks probably know I’m a I’m a very demented animal lover.  So, I do this for all my animals, all my friends, any substantial relationship. And that even included some business relationships that were valuable. Because when those go, that grief comes, even if it’s you know, your lawyer or your business partner, doesn’t just have to be a lover or friend.

Ann

And is there a process to this, Rudy, this pre-grieving, is there a certain way to do it?

Rudy

Yeah, there’s a very bumbly long way, I’m going to, part of why I wanted to get with you to do this is, all folks have to do is to lean into the energy work that will be embedded on this recording. And instead of doing it as we’re going to do it, for someone who has actually left, you can do it for someone who’s still here. So energetically it is a faster way to get that set up. Otherwise, it’s, it’s an awful lot of thinking and intellectual prep. So, it’ll be something folks can lean into to use. I’m a big fan of the easy way.

Ann

Oh, I love an easy way. For sure. Are you gonna do that now? Should we do that in a bit?

Rudy

Let’s do it in a bit.

Ann

We’ll do that in a bit. Okay, so we’ll come back to that, folks. So, keep, keep listening. Ha-ha!

Rudy 

Well, we have to have the sex talk first.  Of course, I didn’t pre warn you we were gonna have the sex talk, but we are.

Ann

Okay.

Rudy

One of the things depending on who you’re losing, or who you’ve lost the levels of physical intimacy is actually what grievers want more than anything else, and I can’t believe I’m the first one that I that I’m aware of to voice this out loud. Probably because I started life as a potty mouth. That’s probably why, but that’s what we crave. We crave their smell, their touch, the places they kissed us. And I’m not talking necessarily about Paris or Rome, although that too.  We crave that because that is the thing we are very aware as grievers we can never get back. We can stare at a photograph, watch a video, go to a memorial. We can sniff their clothes, by the way I’ve always wondered, I used to wonder about the, the sniffing the clothes thing, because every griever does that, I’m pretty sure every mom and every dad does that too for the kids who are still here. And they’re not just checking for nappies, but that smelling of the person, their scent, actually has a very powerful neurological explanation. The olfactory route from the nose to the brain is the shortest neural pathway in the human body. It’s the shortest neural pathway in the brain. So when we smell something, we have a more full recollection of details. Now, I know this from doing trauma work with people, when we’re unlocking trauma of let’s say, a car accident, I will frequently ask them to focus, if we’re not making really fast, progress, because I like to work quickly. If we’re not making really fast progress, I will have them remember the scent of the scene of the accident. So typically, it’ll be something like burning tyres. Or for some people, it’s the smell of blood. Or for some people, it’s the smell of the air freshener in the car. Now remember, they’re not actually smelling the smell, they’re smelling or re-remembering the memory of a scent, that takes them fully back into the memory for release. Now, because I know this, this explains the why you sniff their T shirts thing when you miss somebody. But it’s one of the ways into a reliving of intimate moments. And it doesn’t just have to do with smell, or I’m going to take us all through. This is a slightly longer, more cumbersome process, I’m going to hit the highlights with everybody here. Here’s how this goes; we have some kind of intimate life with who we’ve lost. And it doesn’t necessarily have to be a sexual life. So let me get the non-sexual stuff out of the way. So, not, not everybody is weirded out by this.  Everybody likes to smell a baby’s head, for example.  Because it’s some magic, wonderful, pure smell. If you lose a baby or a child, that’s one of the intimate moments you can have with them.  I’ve lost a lot of animals in my life and dogs and cats and other pets and animals who we have contact with, have particular behaviours, where they press into us, they fall asleep on our arm, they stick their nose in our ear, there’s a lot of touch things that they do, some of which become special over time, because they do them again and again. And they’re adorable. And that imprints on us. And if you watch couples from a distance, which I love to do, you will often see, and it doesn’t always have to be on date night.  If you see couples out, you’ll see touches that they share with one another. Sometimes it’s guiding the other person’s body to safety, like getting them out of the road or lifting them up off a curb or assisting. Sometimes it’s the between time when a lecture gets boring, I love to watch couples from behind, because it’s kind of fun. There are a lot of couples that I see that will play with the backs of each other’s necks or their ears. And it’s so intimate and so lovely. And it’s, it’s a little code that they worked out. And it’s delightful. So those are kind of non-sexual, intimate touches. When it comes to bigger intimacy, we have very powerful hormonal memories of where we were touched, how we were kissed, and all the things that go on behind closed doors. And if you ask any griever, they will tell you, they want that back. There’s the feeling that that was stolen from them. Because we know the body is not coming back. The spirit and the essence and the memories and the love is still here for sure. But that touch, is a strong yearning or a strong craving. The nervous system is another little insight to what happens, the nervous system goes hunting for that stimuli, or as close as it can get.  Which means, that someone who’s lost someone who has a lot of those kinds of memories, is going to be very open to trying out all kinds of substances, events, circumstances, people and activities, because their nervous system is driving them to find something close. So, it does account for a lot of crazy behaviour with folks who have newly lost people. Thankfully, I am too sensible for that, but the reflexes and the awareness and everybody’s nervous system open to that. So, when you see someone who’s grieving, we know they’re vulnerable. And we say, oh, yeah, they’re really vulnerable. This is part of what we mean. This is what we see. We see their, their hunger and their yearning for trying to get that back. And I have great news. There’s a way to get that back in the nervous system and I’m going to do that with everybody on the call today. And I want to talk a couple of people down off the fence who will hear what I’ve just said, and will think to themselves, don’t mess with my memories, it’s all I have left of them. So, here’s what I want everybody to hear really clearly.  If grief is a sticky glue or schmutz between the love or intimacy you feel with a loved one and yourself. If we reduce and remove that grief, the love actually gets stronger. And the experience comes closer, not further away.  And another way to say it is we’re not messing with the intimate memory, we’re messing with the, the muddy window, we’re seeing it through, we’re basically cleaning that window off, so we can help to re-access it more strongly. Because that’s what we actually want when we’ve lost someone. One of the stories I always tell, one of the dogs who I, we both used to have, who I loved dearly, when we would fall asleep on the, on the couches, he is a medium sized dog, but he would wait till we had fallen asleep and he would crawl up on either his, on George’s belly or my belly and lie on his back, and then he would stretch out in ways that only a dog can. So, he was basically as tall as we were all stretched out but lying down and he was perched while we while we fell asleep on our bellies. And I want that back like mad coz that was a beautiful thing. And he did it a lot. So, you can use what we’ll do in a few minutes for things like that, and I strongly recommend you do. And you can also do it for I don’t know, did they pull your hair and call you Susan, I don’t know what you’re into, whatever they did, however fantastic it was, you can do it for that.

Ann

That would be nice.  So, if you had a friend who you haven’t seen for ages, you don’t know where they’ve gone, but you’ve got some lovely memories of time you’ve shared with them, you could do it for that as well.

Rudy

Absolutely you can.  And I wouldn’t wait, I would, I would load yourself up, because we’re,  as soon as the connection is kind of broken in terms of seeing them, we’re trying to stay attached to that love and the physical, the physicality of it, the, the touch is very important. I have a, I wouldn’t say anything rude or out of sorts, which is probably a little unlike me. But over the course of our relationship, George and I were together 28 years, which is a long time. And over the course of time, aside from, you know, real intimacy and things, we taught a lot of classes together, we went to lots of business meetings and this, that and the other. We were very busy dudes.  One of my favourite things. And the reason I bring this up is not to tell tales out of school, but it also doesn’t have to be something, like I just told the story about our dog who did something that touched us.  You can be the one who is doing the thing, which opens up a whole other world too. So, during business meetings or in between things, one of my favourite things to do, as a way to sort of reconnect with George when we were busy out in the world, was to hook my middle fingers under the crook of his knee. I didn’t plan on it, it’s just something that became a habit, and it was just a way of checking in. So, it’s just the, it’s the same as watching a couple from behind who plays with each other’s neck or hair or whatever. It’s just a way of saying I’m here.

Ann

It’s a reassurance, isn’t it?  Because I do that with my partner in bed, when he’s lying down. I’ll just slip my three fingers under his tummy. Just as a connection, because he is too hot to get too close to, but you want the connection, so you just put a couple of little things like that until you get that lovely communion together, it’s lovely.

Rudy

That’s exactly right.  Communion is exactly right. So, whether we initiated it, or they initiated it, those memories we can get access to again, because the truth of the matter is they’re still there. But they are mired in layers of shellacked grief. And that’s why it feels so far away.

Ann

And what would you say then? So this all sounds great. I’m really excited about this and I’m really looking forward to this coming up, Rudy, but what would you say, a thought comes into my mind of the naysayers who may say, oh, but if you do that, how are you going to accept that they are no longer here?

Rudy

Yeah. Well, we’re starting from, we’re starting from grief, which is part of the war on acceptance anyway, if we could accept the truth of what is, we would have very little grief. It’s the fight to keep them here. And the irony is, that this process, and as far as I know, I’m the only one doing this. I have actually trained, excuse me, some of the people I’ve trained to do my work, the Ashworkers that I trained I’ve trained them how to do this as well. But as far as I know, this is, this is new to the game. Here’s what I actually say to naysayers, because it’s been a delight to me.  In the folks that I’ve worked with, and some of my Ash Workers that I have worked with, it is not uncommon during this process. How do you say this? And how do you say this in a polite way on podcast? To, to get the hormone, the hormonal flow going dramatically. This is that cryptic enough

Ann

That’s beautifully said.

Rudy

Thank you. So, we are only having a relationship with ourself with a memory of our loved one. I mean, I know we’re still connected through the heart. I know we’re still connected through spirit and all of those things. But you don’t even have to, you don’t have to re up for the whole nine yards in order to have your nervous system open in regard to this touch. Because this touch missing, is a form of kinaesthetic trauma. It’s like something you love deeply. And then it’s taken away from the spot on you. And I doubt anybody listening would have trouble coming up with touches, they remember, but think pelvis, think chest, think, you know, head neck, you’ll find something that you yearn for. So now that we’ve done the big sideling up to it, let’s get on with it.

Ann

Oh, wonderful. Lovely, how exciting. Just before we do that, you mentioned Ash Workers, which people may not know what that is, can you tell us a little bit about that.?

Rudy

Yeah, that’s a, that’s a hands on and hands off remote, long distance healing system that I developed, I actually built it, because I’ve taken almost every healing course in existence. And I’ve taken lots of great ones. And I, I’ve always thought to myself, well, if I was building a course, I’d include that. And I put this neat thing in, and that. So that’s what Ash work really is. It’s a way of working with people and animals remotely, without touch, touch, you can touch if you want. So, I train folks, I run the course, every two years. There’s a basic and an advanced level. And it’s a marvellously successful way of creating change. And these days, because of my practice, I mostly refer private session work to those folks. So, I’m an active referer to my advanced students, because they do great work, and they’re nice people.

Ann

Fabulous. Oh, thank you for explaining that. That’s great.

Rudy

Oh, sure. So, I want to dive right in deep. And when you’re listening to this podcast, please do not be driving, do not be distracted, don’t operate heavy machinery. And please be alone. The one thing I get asked more than anything else, when we go to do this work with people is, oh, can I do this in bed when my husband is sleeping next to me? No.  No, you may not, that’s called blurring the lines in your nervous system. You need to be alone when you do this, because it’s only about you, and whoever is no longer with us. So, I’ll give you a second to scan through your memory banks to find a juicy touch or a juicy physical action, or a juicy act. The more complete and succinct it is for starters, the better, the better result you’ll get initially.  Eventually, as you start to do this, more and more things will naturally arise, which is great. So, once you know what you’re working on, your brain knows, your nervous system knows, we’re almost all set. But we need to do one little thing first, I’d like you to say to yourself either aloud or I mean, if you can do it aloud that would be great. Or or silently, “It’s okay for me to relive this.”

Ann

That’s a powerful phrase, isn’t it?

Rudy

Yes, yeah. Because sometimes, we’re either scared, or we believe we shouldn’t have permission. And it can often bring up a whole bunch of questions like, let me put this podcast on pause for 10 minutes and think about why I’m dragging my feet. I say I want this touch back. And like Rudy said, you know, it’s okay. It’s like, it doesn’t feel okay.

Ann

It’s interesting, because like, I don’t know, I have no idea what you’re about to tell us. I’m thinking of, you know, I’m going through my own Rolodex. And I’m thinking about something about my father, but I’m just touching his hand in his face. Very simple memory, very strong. And it’s making me have this kind of rising panic a little bit like, oh, where are you going to take me, and I feel a little scared and anxious about that.

Rudy

That’s why I love you. So, here’s my advice for starters. Don’t do that one first. Once you’ve gone through the process and the process, by the way, the energetic part is, you won’t want to have any idea what’s going on. It’s very relaxing and lovely, but I can tell you that till I’m blue in the face, so don’t do that one first. Pick something else that’s worth having, that is either with a different person or a different kind of thing.

[COMPUTER MAKES DING DONG SOUND}

Ann

Ding dong!  Ding Dong!

Okay, so something, what a little bit more intimate, an intimate person or …

Rudy

Personally, I would go for intimate, because if we’re going to go to all this trouble, I think it should be, I think it should be worth it, you know.

Ann

Yeah. Yeah. I can’t think of anyone.

Rudy

You don’t have to; you don’t have to tell us what it is.

Ann

This is a fun session. Okay. I, well, I’ve got to think of something though Rudy, I really can’t think of anything.  Keep thinking everybody at home.

Rudy 

Think of old lovers who’ve eaten the poisoned mushrooms and are no longer with us.

Ann

Yeah. Okay. Got it. Got it. Got it.

Rudy

Oh, there you go. That did not take long, ladies and gents.

Ann

No, not with a lifetime like mine, darling!

Rudy

You dial back and you go, oh, yeah, he used to do that thing with the saddle and the buttercream. Remember that? That was good.

Ann

That will do – I’ll use that one!

Rudy

Right, one of those!  Okay.  So that’s what’s up. That’s what’s blocked from grief. So, check to see if it’s okay for you to re-experience that just for yourself, that touch and presuming that it is, that’s the one you’ll do first.  Later on, you can go back and do the one that you weren’t sure about. And the reason all of these are safe, it is because it’s only us we’re dealing with, we’re not actually dealing with the other person. We’re dealing with our side of the memory in the nervous system. That was a lot of blah blah blah to get here. Now we’ll do something much more fun, sit or lie or slouch or lean in a comfortable position and take my advice on this. If this particular touch always happened when you were lying on your left side, then lie on your left side when we do the energy work, if you are, oh dear this is going to sound so naughty, if you were always on all fours, all fours it is. If there was always, here’s another little tip that will help your nose and your recall, if you always lit the same candle or the same scent, light that and do this process. These are just ways of getting the nervous system into rhythm really easily. So, we’ll sit quietly for a couple of minutes, which is great on podcasts. I like to tell podcast hosts that yes, we’ll be doing some quiet sitting work and they, you can feel everything in them contract, it is like what do you mean, silence? Oh, no!

Ann

No, but that’s great. As everybody knows now, that there’s going to be a period of silence here, prepare for it. Do not switch off. There’s important things going on, isn’t there, Rudy?

Rudy

There are important things. Here’s what I’m doing. I’ll, I’ll give you an overview of what’s happening. We’re going to the memory, to the place. And we’re just opening it a smidge. That’s my job. We open it a, everything I say sounds awful now, but we are going to open it a crack, and then the nervous system takes it all the rest of the way, at the speed that it can handle. That’s the other reason that it’s safe. Okay, so you sit quietly, I recommend you close your eyes, be in a position if you can, where that touch or close to it where that touch happened, because it’s just easier for your body to know that. We’ll go for a couple of minutes, and I’ll let you know when we’re done. We’ll get the work started for all of us right now.

[PAUSE – SILENCE FOR 55 SECONDS]

Rudy 

Bring your attention easily and gently back, wherever you slid off to or meander to just allow yourself to come back slowly. As a very first thing, once you arrive back, I want you to check a couple of things for yourself, I want you to check what you notice, irrespective of what I say, there’s no should about what you should or shouldn’t notice, what you notice is what you notice. My suggestion is, notice anything that may have arrived, and anything that may have left, because that’s a great way to start discerning what is different in you. And don’t just check the physical body.  I know we’re talking a lot about touch, but check how you feel mentally, emotionally, spiritually, karmically towards this memory, that person, these times. And then also do check your physicality. Sometimes the tissue itself, depending on where it is, or, or if it’s been bound up, contracted, the tissue itself will sometimes, well fairly often, it will expand a little bit, or relax. Sometimes there are some clients who have all kinds of roller coaster, good roller coaster stuff that happens afterwards. And sometimes there’s the end of a little piece of grief that was stuck in the tissue. So, there might be tears that usually don’t have a lot of content or meaning to them. And it’s also totally fine to just be still and enjoy the energy work. Because this, this is a process that does take a little time and open it. Because we’re used to having it very tightly contracted. So, Ann, staying out of content for us unless you want to tell us shocking, irreverent, outrageous things. Let me know what your experience was.

Ann 

Well, I feel incredibly uplifted after that. I feel very happy. I had flashes and flashes of flashes of other parts of memories that came with this person. Beautiful things, and so I feel incredibly uplifted and full of joy. Whereas before I think, when I was think, used to think about that person, I could feel it in my solar plexus, I felt a tension and an anxiety almost like wanting to hold on to them. But now I feel like I’m sharing a space with them. So, it feels a lot different.

Rudy 

Wow, that’s beautifully put. What you describe, that wanting to hold on, is grief. That’s what it is, it’s a clutch. And being in the same space as someone, really is a kind of mutuality that we want desperately. We just, we don’t really know how to get there. And left to our thinking mind. It’s that’s a long, arduous, often unsuccessful way.

Ann

Yeah,

Rudy

to get into that territory.

Ann

Yeah, that’s amazing. It’s beautiful. I feel very uplifted. I really do. I’d be so interested if people listening have uplifting experiences or other.  Do let Rudy and I know, other people listening, come on to the Facebook page and let us all know or send us an email because we

Rudy

We are very nosey; we want to know everything. Well. Maybe not, um, yeah, I want to know everything, but the highlights anyway.

Ann

Yeah, the highlights, yeah, very interesting.

Rudy

So let me, let me help rescue the 10 or 15% of people who are still raw, because been there, done that, got the T-shirt, in spades. Raw sucks. And I hope they’ve lasted this long. I maybe should have done this in reverse order at the beginning, but raw is a is a full of pain place. I’m going to do a very different kind of energetic process now. And it’s a very active one. I’ll set it up. We’ll do it for a short burst of time. It’s actually a little draining for me. I’m not, I’m not humble bragging, it’s just, just, is, I’ll have to have a nap afterwards. It’s really important, grief is in my estimation, one of the stickiest emotions we have.  It’s very gluey, and it is, it’s happy to hang around. When we’re still raw with fury. What makes us raw is, we’re still angry. We’re not only grieving, we are furious. That’s what makes raw.  We have to be able to expel that anger in a way where we’re not going to hurt ourselves. We’re not going to hurt other people. We’re not going to do dangerous acts. And all of those things are very common in grief. Folks who are still furious and raw, punch people, have car accidents, they road rage, they hurt themselves, they do all kinds of things. I want to be able to pull that level down quickly and safely. And we’re going to do this with something I’ve been doing for years with, with different, with different targets. It’s called a push. This is a weird thing I discovered I was able to do.   So, when I tell you to, not now, not yet, I want you to pony up and make me a target. Not yet. And by that, I mean, silently and not out loud, and not acting out, you’re only going to do this in your head and in your heart, you’re going to focus that fury at the sound of my voice when I tell you to, I am going to pre brace before we do it. And there’s a particular thing called an energetic push, which I will do for a limited amount of time, it will probably only be 30 or 40 seconds. During that time, your job is to push as much negative, angry, raw energy towards me as humanly possible. You have to keep going, you can’t do five seconds and go, okay, I’m done. Because that’s, that’s a different mental state. I can handle as much as you want to push. And I’ll be able to handle handle it on the replay, too, because it’s set up to do that. Did I leave anything out? Is that clear?

Ann 

No, that’s all clear. And but just to be clear to everybody listening, this is including you, this is not just for me, this is all the listeners, is that right?

Rudy 

Everyone.  Yes, all the listeners live and on replay for all time.

Ann

Okay.

Rudy

And Ann as well.

Rudy

So, I’m gonna, I will get set up…

Ann 

Sorry. Before you get set up, just let us know. I’m always one to ask another question when the teacher has finished. Just being clear. So, all our negative energy, our anger, is that regarding grief?

Rudy 

Yes, you’re, you’re gonna focus mostly, it’s, this is far more effective if you pick one person who’s, who’s gone, or one animal or one loss that you suffered, maybe you lost a job. Yeah, look at the world we’re living in. Half the world’s lost a job. So that’s real brief, too. So whatever it is, pick one target, because the bang for your buck will be much more substantial. And then folks can come back and replay and do the other things as well.

Ann 

Yeah, sure. So yes, you do it on this one for maybe a relationship. And then when we listen to it again, we could maybe do it for a job loss or some other reason.

Rudy 

Exactly. Okay. Give me about 10 seconds. I’ll say start now. And then when I say start now, you’ll just blast at me when I say, okay, we’re done. Please stop. All right. Give me a second. And begin.

[55 SECONDS OF SILENCE]

Okay, wherever you are, just stop, let that go as best you can. Take a moment after doing this, to squeeze yourself out of that, wring, wring your shoulders out. Move your neck, squeeze your back. Wiggle your bum. All right.

Ann

Wipe away the tears.

Rudy

Wipe away the tears?  Yeah.  So, tell us for you. What’s what?

Ann

How that felt?

Rudy

Yes.

Ann

Oh, gosh.

Rudy

Gee Rudy, I love having you on the programme, I feel awkward and uncomfortable, it’s lovely to have you back!

Ann 

It’s fine. It’s all fascinates me, Rudy. It really does. How do I feel? I felt, oh, well. I was focusing. I don’t mind saying what I was focussing on, I was focusing on the death of my brother, who died earlier this year. And I was focusing on the anger I felt around that, the unfairness about it. The fact that I couldn’t go and see him in the hospice until the end, all of the things that many, many people have experienced, and worse. But all of that yes, I was just concentrating all of that. And I realised how much, it’s a good job you stopped me because there’s so much in there. I could have just gone on for quite some time. And at first it was quite hard to begin feeling it again. And then I kind of got into it. And then I got really emotional about it, and really didn’t realise how upset I still am about it all, because we fight it don’t we, we, we’ve, like you said, we cling on to something, just to get through every day, don’t we.

Rudy 

We fight it tooth and freaking nail.

Ann

Yeah.

Rudy

So you said, thank you. You said a bunch of really important things. Aside from having a great experience, it does sometimes take a few seconds to get out of our head and drop down where we can go. Okay, Hunter said we can do it, let’s let him have it. So that in and of itself is freeing. The realisation that we didn’t, we didn’t really know, we had as much fury in there as we did.  Think about all that fury, pushing everything else out of its way from the death to now, whether the death was this year or 25 years ago. That’s a strong emotional interference pattern. The other thing about this, the other reason I wanted to put this on replay.  I contacted you and said that I got some stuff I want to do for people, because it’s not only new for me and raw, but it’s really important.  We have to get this out of us, we have to find a way. You know, back in the 80s, I used to go in a hotel room with 300 people and punch pillows and kill our parents, you know, 67,000 times and maybe got 2% of it out. So, the reason this is on replay specifically, is so that you can go do the rest.

Ann

Right. Gotcha.

Rudy

And for the hardcorers out there, and I’ve met some of you, I know you’re hardcore. You can do it, you can take a week and go at this, you can go at it once a day, for a week. Now everyone thinks they have, because it feels so vast and overpowering, especially our anger about it. We think we have oceans of rage, mountains of rage, we think we have endless universes. And I’m, that, that’s how it feels for sure. If you come and do a push with me, and I’m thrilled it’s here, you will be very surprised how quickly you run out of steam. Maybe not the first two times. But by the third time it’s, like I’m okay, I don’t want to do this anymore. And the reason we don’t want to do it anymore is because we’re empty. We actually pushed it. And the other thing I want to tell everybody, is this is 100% human normalness.  If you love them, if you hated them, if you were fighting with them, if they were a jackass, whatever percentage of good, bad, ugly, stupid, idiotic, the relationship was, it’s 100% normal to have this unfinished anger. Looking for out, that’s really what it’s doing. It’s looking for a way out. And doing a push in this way is a safe way to get it out of the system. So Ann, do this for me. Think about your brother, now. Now that I’ve talked for a few minutes.

Ann

Yep.

Rudy

What do you notice about your relationship with him now?

Ann 

What, what, what sort of thing do you mean? In terms of?

Rudy 

I’m not even gonna lead you. You tell him?

Ann

Aw.

Rudy

No, you just tell me. Because whatever you feel is great. I mean, whatever you feel is perfectly right and there’s no right or wrong in this. You did just squeeze out a volcano full of anger.

Ann 

I did!  I feel a great balance in some ways. But I also still feel this great loss, you know, this great loss of future times we may have spent together, future times we may have fallen out together. I mean, you know, just a future normal brother sister relationship really.

Rudy 

Does that sadness? And I’m not trying to put words in your mouth. But does that sadness when you focus on it now, does that somehow feel more honest?

Ann 

I can only describe it Rudy, as being more in balance more harm, harmonious somehow.

Rudy

Yes.

Ann

In in the way that I feel about it.

Rudy 

Great. The reason I asked that, you as always, you’re, you’re so in touch with yourself, it’s fabulous. When we are, when we’re caught up in the fury of it, all we feel is fury. So, everything is exaggerated. You know, they, they weren’t just an idiot. They’re a complete dick. Like everything is to the max, exaggerated and dramatic. Because it’s our fury trying to be let out of the pen. One of the things that is very interesting when we do a push like this with something that’s so loaded with great intense emotions, is all kinds of interesting things start to change in our life. Frequently, sleep gets way better. Happiness tends to go way up, and we can still miss them. We can still be crying and still miss them. But it’s interesting to see in the coming couple of days and weeks, it, this is my recommendation to everybody, just track yourself gently and see what shows up as new or curiously different, because we’ve made a lot of space that was being taken up by our own fury, going nowhere.

Ann 

Those words that you just said, we can still miss them.

Rudy

Yes.

Ann

Somehow it gives me permission to still miss him. I don’t know. I don’t know what I’m expecting here, really? But, yes, I like that, that we can still miss them. And I like the fact that I can miss him without feeling so terrible about, frankly, you know?

Rudy 

That’s actually the beginning of coming out of the, the anger and the denial of our grief. I miss my husband like mad. And some days I cry. And some days, I’ve actually caught myself some, doings I haven’t done for years, which is singing in the car. And I noticed like, why, aren’t I supposed to be grieving? Like, well, yeah, I cried my eyes out this morning. So yeah, so I can still be, if I have to be here, and he has to be there. We can still be connected. And we can still miss each other. And there is a, there is a sweetness in that. The piece that was missing for me and a lot of grievers is the physicality. That’s part of it, because when they, when George passed, he had a, he had a pre-existing wish that I knew about since the beginning of our relationship, which, which is that when he passed, he wanted to lay in state for three days. And I opted to have that at home. I almost changed my mind. And I thought no, that would, that would feel weird. So, I had him at home. And, and during that period of time, I talked a lot. We talked to each other in the way that we, we did, and I put a lot of oils on him, I did a lot of chanting a lot of ritual. And it became glaringly apparent to me that this intellectual idea that I’ve known and believed for aeons, which is that we are only in the body, we’re not the body. And remember the context of this is, I used to be a body worker. I’m all about bodies, right? I love bodies. When he left, I saw him leave. And it, this hysterically funny idea occurred to me like, how could he ever have been the body? Because the body is now just here and it’s not much to speak of. And you don’t have to believe my version of it. In fact, I recommend nobody believe anything I say. But go with your own experience, your own way of experiencing the grief, lean into the tools that are here, because they are. They’re very well serving; they will serve you for forever.

Ann 

But it’s lovely to be able to grieve them, excuse me, to miss them and cope with the anger in some way. Or shift the anger out. Because the anger turns in on itself, I find.  The anger for me makes me just get into a bad mood, feel rather cross and justified in my own self-pitying anger days sometimes, or my tired days, I’ll be justified. Sometimes it leads to those bottles of wine that are drunk, and you just think, oh, well, who cares? Anyway, whatever. And that’s not healthy. That’s all has to do with holding on to the anger.

Rudy 

It is. That’s one of the reasons I mentioned. At the beginning, which may have seemed a little out of context, that those folks who have lost folks, not only are vulnerable, but their nervous system is looking for wine and cigarettes and humping and online shopping and hardcore drugs, and they’re looking for any mess they can get into, that gets them in the territory of some kind of real remembrance. It is okay to miss them.

Ann 

Yeah, yeah. And finding that beautiful balance and equilibrium. Gosh, that’s amazing. So, if people want to come and work with you, Rudy, I know you’re offering incredible courses. You’ve always offering incredible healing courses and courses of all kinds. Tell us what you’ve got on your website, what you’re offering and what you’re currently working on, regarding grief and all these things.

Rudy 

Sure. Over the years, I have produced a lot of material on grief, but I’ve just completed a course called a Yearning, what Grievers actually want, which is much of some of the highlights of what we’ve done here but more in depth.  I was trying to figure out the best, easiest way for people to find me, because I have too many websites and I’m all over the place. So, here’s my suggestion. You can either just punch into a search engine healers training Rudy Hunter, that’s a good one that’ll take you right to the courses. Or if that’s too much, just punch in Rudy Hunter.  I have been stacking most of the internet with small bite sized videos and audios, lots of free tools for people and animals that folks can lean into. Because I would rather you, just like here, I mean, I, I’m here mostly to hang out with Ann, honestly. And as a secondary thing, I like folks to check out my work because I’m not everybody’s cup of tea. I want folks who are suffering to find the best cup of tea for them, just like you shouldn’t grieve anybody else’s way. I’m may not be the dude, but you get a chance to sample that from my suggestions, go sign up at the websites for my free private newsletter, because that keeps you in the information loop for all the goodies I’m working on. I put a lot of material out for folks to use because I want people get better and I can’t work with everybody. Or I will be really, really tired.

Ann 

Yes, what you are saying there Rudy thought is that you put a lot of free stuff out, free things that people can access.

Rudy 

I actually have peers who yell at me for putting out so much free stuff. So nananana booboo, I just I think it’s important.

Ann 

It’s fabulous. And tell us the sort of animal things, as people might be very interested in, in the work you’re doing with animals, or you’ve got out there for animals.

Rudy 

I have, I have a lot of work for animals. Let me give you the sites because that sort of explains most of it. Rudyhunter.com is one. The other is huntershealingcalls.com that has a massive amount of tools on it and a lot of stuff for animals as well. And then the ashworkerstraininghub.com, which is for both people and animals, basically, it’s across the species line. That’s the ashworkerstraininghub.com. And you’ll see on all these sites, there’s, there’s usually pictures of me squeezed into tiny dog runs. I’m not a tiny dude. So, I squish my gigantic frame into cramped little quarters to go work on. Well, when I go on holidays, I go offer my services to a bunch of refuges. And I used to work in a prison programme that worked with men in rehabbing dogs within the prison system, as some of the, the most glorious times I’ve ever spent, because I got to work with the dogs. But I also snuck in some work with the men while I was in the big house as they say.

Ann 

Fantastic yeah, brilliant. So Rudyhunter.com, huntershealingcalls.com and ashworkerstraininghub.com is where you guys can go and pick up all the information about Rudy. Have you got a course on sale at the moment Rudy, you were talking about Yearning – Is that what it’s called?

Rudy 

Yes, Yearning is the name of it. The easiest way to find that, I think most directly, is by just putting in a search engine, healers training Rudy Hunter, that should …

Ann 

I’ll get the link for that. And I’ll put it in the show notes for this

Rudy

Oh, thank you so much,

Ann

And people can easily just go straight directly to you. What can they expect on that course? Rudy, if they buy that from you?

Rudy 

Yearning has a lot of tools and a lot of bonuses in it.  The depth of how people need to move through, move through grief. That’s a lifetime access course. So, I mean, it’s a gruesome thing to even think about, we will lose a lot of people and a lot of animals and those of us that are still around through how nutty the world is. And it’s a terrible way for it to be demonstrated to us. But it’s this re-reminder that we’re either leaving, or they are, but the inevitability of it. I want myself and my friends and my clients and my loved ones and all of you, to be more rugged with moving through it with some kind of grace. So, it doesn’t disable us. I’m very conscious, especially with grief and anger that there are a lot of people who choose to opt out. And they opt out in sometimes dramatic and terrible ways. And there are other people who also opt out by getting stuck royally, which is stuck as widow widower, the one left behind, and then they inhabit that role. And it’s a terrible place to get lost. So, if we can help folks stay away from that territory, I think I think that’s a good thing.

Ann 

Yeah, that’s a fantastic thing. Rudy Hunter, thank you so much for coming onto the show and just explaining all of these wonderful techniques. I’m sure it’s going to help an awful lot of people.

Rudy 

Thanks so much Ann, a delight.

Rudy Hunter there everyone, please do go straight to his website rudyhunter.com and click on Rudy’s Courses – you can take a look at his new course Yearning: What Grievers Really Want.  I am sure that it will help you enormously.  And you will be able to see some of the amazing courses that Rudy is currently offering.  There are so many free tools and resources on Rudy’s websites, so check some of those out – https://www.huntershealingcalls.com and definitely sign up to his newsletter, to keep up to date with everything that Rudy is offering the world.  An amazing, beautiful, very gifted, man.

All the resources for this episode, including a full transcript and are over on my website under podcasts, so do head over there and you can pick everything up on the show notes. www.anntheato.com. 

It’s time to say, au revoir. Thank you so much to all of you out there who are listening and supporting this podcast – I’m so grateful to you, we have listeners in 93 countries around the world in 3454 cities and towns.

I’m so grateful to my patrons as well, we had a wonderful patron gathering this month, and if you are interested in joining us, please do go and check out the benefits (of which there are many) on Patreon.com/psychicmatters

I wish you well over the next couple of weeks.  Both Rudy Hunter and myself really hope you have taken something away with you from this episode, that will really help and assist you to move through your own personal grief.  Come over to the Psychic Matters Facebook Group page, drop us a message there, and let us know,

 …. until next time… my name is Ann Théato and thank you for listening to PSYCHIC MATTERS!

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