About Psychic Matters Podcasts

Ann Théato, International Psychic Medium and Spiritual Tutor, investigates psychic development, mediumship techniques, and paranormal science, so that you can come to understand your own innate psychic ability and expand your knowledge, whilst learning to develop a curious mind.

This Week’s Episode

Intuitive Medium, Tutor and Trance Healer, Lorna J Hines, talks about the reasons why, historically, people of colour have rarely been honoured for their spiritual contributions, and how this has led to a paucity of diversity in spiritual church congregations and spiritual workshops, classes and events.

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Thanks for listening.

Why not share it now?

Or ask a question over on Psychic Matters! Podcast Facebook page

TRANSCRIPT

Hello everybody!  My name is Ann Theato and welcome to the Psychic Matters podcast – episode number 19.

This week, we’re exploring the topic of diversity in modern day spiritual practice.  Intuitive Medium and good friend Lorna J Hines was with me in the studio this week.  We’ve been talking about the reasons why historically people of colour have rarely been honoured for their spiritual contributions and how this has led to a paucity of diversity in spiritual church congregations and spiritual workshops, classes and events.  Lorna speaks about growing up as a child in New York and why & how our early experiences reflect how we see & interpret the world around us.  Lorna talks to us about the important work she is doing with a very special group she has set up, called the Mediums of African Ancestry – a vibrant group of people of all skin colours – from many different countries across the globe-  who are dedicated to researching & honouring our Pioneers of colour and to increasing our understanding of the contributions of people of colour in spiritual practice.  Not only that, we are also exploring numerology, the importance of community and trance healing and how it works.

You may interpret the world in a very different way, once you’ve listened to this fascinating episode. 

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Ann

I’m here in the Psychic Matters studio today with Lorna J Hines, certified Intuitive Medium, Trance Healer, Counsellor, Teacher… I can’t tell you how many job titles this lady has, she does a vast a vast array of different types of work and I’m so delighted to welcome her here, Lorna J Hines, welcome to Psychic Matters.

Lorna

Thank you so much.

Ann

So lovely to see you.  I can see you on my screen and you’re wearing this beautiful yellow top and you look all sunny and bright which is wonderful.  Lorna tell us where you’re up to today and who you are and the type of work that you do.

Lorna

That’s an interesting question, because in part, I made some decisions after being very ill and we can talk about that at a later time in your interview.  But I did make a decision to spend less time or even no time, in things that did not bring me joy.  And in many ways I feel as though this particular theme, of pursuing things that bring me joy, is very much akin to the reasons that I sought the path of spiritual practises in the first place.  So, back to your original question.  I do tend, I admit, that I do tend to go off in somewhat of tangents, but I do work hard to bring myself back and make sense about what it is I’m talking about.  But presently, I am doing quite a bit of work, only one thing a day as I mentioned, since being ill and so besides the things that you talked about, the mediumship, the trance healing, I am working on a book that I hope and pray will be released the first of the year.  It’s been a long time coming, it’s a sojourn and what I like to call it, is a psychosocial radical revolutionary way for people to begin their process, their, their healing process and coping with the tragedies and the turmoils that we all experience if we are humans.  So be on the lookout for Straight Talk From A Wise Woman, that’s the title.  So I am working on a book. I am also continuing my studies with SNU, hoping to achieve another credential.  In part, I study with them to challenge myself and to learn and to obtain training and competence, and the ability to improve, and the ability for me to self-analyse aspects of my practice. So that is part of the things that I’m doing. I have students that I mentor, I think that’s very important. I have had the wonderful opportunity of being mentored and supported in my evolvement by many wonderful, wonderful, people so I think it is very important to give back and so my work with students is something that I’m involved with. I am also very involved with the whole idea of racism, sexism and all of the various isms that wherever we are we are impacted.  Even people that claim that they don’t live or that they are not part of diverse environments, are impacted by these various isms: classism, the various health disparities that gone.  So I am very involved in this whole aspect and doing what I can for whatever number of years that I’m going to be on this earth, with addressing those issues and I do want to emphasise, that this dynamic of isms is something that has a worldwide impact. There is no place on this earth, and a very famous writer, I don’t know if you ever heard of him, Frantz Fanon, very old book that he wrote, Wretched Of The Earth when he talked about the pervasiveness of these various isms and the ways in which all nations in many ways are affected by it.  So I am very much involved in teaching and training and working on this particular arena, and as you know, because you were very helpful early on in supporting our Facebook group, that I serve as the Administrator; The Mediums of African Ancestry, and I would like to encourage your readers and your listeners, to consider joining that group. This is a learning community, a diverse learning community made up of people that are interested in increasing their understanding of the presence and contributions of people of colour in all of the spiritual practises, and also the religion of spiritualism. So we begin to unlearn some of the things that we have been taught. For example, historically when I studied some of the leaders in modern spiritualism, for whatever reason, and this isn’t a put down on anyone it just is, we don’t know why, but it’s just is, right? So when I was studying all of the people in modern spiritualism, Emma Hardinge Britten, Andrew Jackson Davis, even Harry Edwards and I’m naming people that have a particular interest within me.  But for whatever reason, some of the exceptional and extraordinary people of colour that were involved in spiritualist practises, both spiritualism and also mediumship, trance, for some reason they were left out of the conversation.  They were left out of the history.  Their existence was not honoured.  Their talents and abilities were not honoured, and so for example, Harriet Wilson, an African American woman, sat on a trance medium, did wonderful mediumship, developed a childrens’ Lyceum, that were very, from my understanding, very individualised, and very much in terms of the day, very expensive, very in some respects, I’m going to use the word revolutionary, but nonetheless Harriet sat on platform with Andrew Jackson David and demonstrated and was very much involved in the spiritualist movement.  We don’t know about her.  We never heard of her.  It was only through the research of others, that I was able to learn about her and begin to resonate with the fact that there are people historically, in spiritualist practises, that look like me. And therefore, there may be now, and I’m going to take away that maybe, there is an opportunity for me to be able to excel as these people have.  Now here’s another thing and I’m going to be a little bit controversial here, because you know when we get my age, we don’t care so much about what people think about us, because we figure we don’t have too much longer on this earth, not that I’m rushing it, I’m glad to be here, but at the same time we feel as though, well if I don’t say it now, when I’m gonna say it? So here’s another gentleman that I have been told, and there is actual historical proof by people that do archives and this type of thing, that this gentleman, Pascal Beverly, in actuality, brought spiritualist practice and spiritualists principles and so forth, actual to the UK, prior to Maria Hayden.   Pascal Beverly, also a African American man. And last, I’m not gonna go on ‘cos this isn’t history class, but you know, I have the heart of a teacher, we know that somewhere around 1922 when Jim Crow was rampant here in the United States; so we had the end of slavery, we had reconstruction, and then we had the emergence of the Jim Crow systems that were really designed to re enslave African Americans; up to that point around 1920/1922, Spiritualists though, here in the United States, had integrated parishioners.  So you had blacks and whites together, and we are proud, many of us that are spiritualists here in the United States, in recognising that spiritualists are people that were on the cutting edge of the suffragette movement, of abolitionists movements, all of this type of thing, but for whatever reason the spiritualists here in the United States made the decision under pressure from probably the government, formal and informal places, to rid the people of colour that looked like me, out of the spiritualist churches.  And out of that, we see the movement and the development of coloured or African American spiritualist churches at that time.  This is not talked about, this is not discussed in my classes, nor is it explored in the fact that in the course of my training, both in mediumship and other spiritual spiritualist practises or spiritual practises, that I find myself as the only person of colour. I used to wonder about that but I think I can begin to understand it in part, due to the historical fact of the split in the 20s.  Now I don’t know what went on in the UK, I’m talking about it in terms of the United States this split, but I do know even in the UK, I’ve noticed that there is a paucity of people of colour in the classes and programmes that I’ve been involved in. So back to my original point, this group Mediums Of African Ancestry begin to understand the historical presence of African Americans in spiritual practises who happen to be people of colour and interest them and support their understanding of various spiritualist practises.  And it is also an opportunity for white people or non-people of colour, to begin to look at their practice, look at who it is their serving and begin to question if they do not have a representation of people of colour in their groups, their workshops, their training, because oftentimes, white people or non-people of colour may not question why it is they only have white people, because it’s part of the privileged practise.  It’s part of the understanding that with privilege we, we often time take things as is.  Well, you know maybe the black people are not interested, or maybe the Latin ex people are not interested in what it is I have to offer, as opposed to thinking about it in terms of, gee, I want to serve everybody I see myself as an ambassador of spirit.  And so are their ways in which, I can reach out to these communities. Are there ways in which I can have a more diverse, inclusive and equitable practice, as is in the spirit world, because we know all sorts of people are in the spirit world: Asians, Africans ,people from the UK, people from New York, and somehow, some way, in the spirit world, these spirit persons have found a way to live productively and amicably and in a spirit focussed way.  So I believe in my heart that our creator wants the same for us but we have to begin to learn, we have to, or shall we say re-learn, we have to do self-reflection and increase ourself self-knowledge and understanding the extent to which various isms have impacted us and impacted the way we see the world.  That we all have these glasses on, and I don’t mean glasses like you and I wear, but what I mean by that is a lens over our mind, body and spirit that impacts and influences how we see the world.  And part of that lens, includes being impacted by the various isms that I’ve talked about, and I hope I’m clear we’re talking about isms being racism, homophobia, trans ISM, classism, the list is enormous.

Ann

Wow that is a lot to consider Lorna.  Let’s just rewind a little and let’s keep on this theme about your  Mediums Of African Ancestry and African Descent, because this is very, very interesting.  How are you doing your research into the coloured pioneers.  How are you finding out who they are? How they were erased from historical records?  How are you finding that out between that group?

Lorna

Well in a variety of ways.  Number one, we have people in the group that have studied this and have done their own research.  We have one particular person that was even able to obtain information from Professor Gates at Harvard and that was regarding Harriet Wilson.  We also have connected to a marvellous, marvellous scholar that has made this her life’s work.  She is not a medium, which is interesting and she doesn’t even practise any type of spiritual type of work, but what she has decided to do, is to make her life work focused on the extent to which African American, both women and men, have been involved in spiritualism and her name I don’t mind saying it, is Professor or Doctor Margarita Gilroy.  She has done quite a bit of written work, books on this subject, she’s continuing to write and she is a friend of the Mediums Of African Ancestry and we anticipate that she will also have the opportunity to offer a workshop on our site.  There is another woman who happens to be white, Professor Gilroy is African American but there is also a white woman, Karen Heasley, that’s very interested in this information and this correction of history both in spiritualism and spiritual practises, and she is out of the Pittsburgh area and she has written a book talking about various people of colour who have been involved in spiritualism and also spiritual practises.  And we notice, as we are being engulfed for lack of a better word, in the murder as you know of George Floyd and many others here in the United States, so, so many and this continues on to the present date, that there has been support, let’s put it positively.  There has been support and encouragement to begin to investigate the extent to which lack of diversity is impacting spiritual practises.   So Lilydale is doing work and as matter of fact we were invited to present a workshop there online in August but I became ill and so unfortunately we weren’t able to have it.  So Lilydale is doing work in that arena.  And we notice as well, that you see some various spiritually focused, I don’t know if you call them agencies, or but they are they are also beginning to offer workshops in this arena, talking about lack of equity and diversity, talking about the extent to which bias, prejudice, institutional racism.  These are all things, these are all concepts people that practise spiritually need to understand.

Ann

So this is all fascinates me Lorna because you know you’re absolutely right we do need a much more diverse selection of students and people to invite into our churches and our events, and our general spirituality but how?  How do we reach those people? I know you’ve talked about privilege where  perhaps we’re in this pattern where maybe they’re not interested, but how do we find them? How can we find them?  How can we work practically to assist?

Lorna

Well I’m going to be honest with you and say that if the spiritual practitioner is motivated, they’re going to find whoever it is they need to find.  Now I do want to be honest with you, especially as a as an older woman here.  If suddenly tomorrow it was learned that African Americans or people of African ancestry in the UK, that they were now the most wealthiest people in the world and they were going to be able to be available to seek services of spiritual practitioners, I will bet you, at least a pound I don’t have a lot of money, I don’t know how much a pound is in US, but I would bet you a pound that these people that you’re talking about, will find these African Americans and African people of ancestry, they would find them.  They would use social media, they would use newspapers, they would advertise perhaps in some magazines that are focused on the needs of people of colour, they would talk to maybe people of colour that they never thought about talking to before, invite them to lunch, invite them to dinner, maybe throw a party.  So if you are motivated and I’m going to be a little hardcore on this, in that if there is motivation, if there is seeing yourself satisfying a need within your practise or that this is something missing, this is a missing piece of your practise, then you are going to take time and seek what it is that’s going to is going to make your practise the way you want it to be.  So it’s the same skills that we use to attract students.  It is the same skills that we can figure out how we can get on Ann Theato’s podcast, so that we can share the light and share our experiences.  It is the same set of skills and it is based on motivation and figuring out what it is I want my practise to look like.  As I mentioned thus far, we have not been doing a good job as spiritual practitioners in making our practise diverse, attracting and encouraging people of colour to our events and I will go on to even say it further, that some of the major spiritualists organisations such as the SNUI and the SNU that I am a part of and perhaps other places as well has not performed adequately in this area. Now I know they will say, and I ascribe it to as well, that they are open, they are open to anyone that comes and they encourage everyone of different colours and classes and so forth to come, and I I agree with that.  However there’s a major difference between saying you are open and articulating it and maybe even writing it down that you are open; versus you taking active steps, concerted steps, structured steps in your mission, vision, value statement and the way you behave, to attract and encourage people of colour in your organisation.

Ann

Beautifully put and absolutely 100%.  When I look at my own practice, I think well if I advertise a class, I just put the class out there and hope somebody will waft past and book it but I don’t actively go out and make sure, as you say, take responsibility upon myself to make sure that I’m getting a diverse number of students which is reflective of what I believe myself to be, as a spiritual person, and open person, where everybody is welcome, but I don’t I don’t take enough action myself that is very true and I’m sure others are in the same place as I am.  And not something I’ve ever really considered until I’ve spoken to you like this because we all think yeah I’m completely open, of course why wouldn’t I be, and we are, we’re very, you know we’re loving, beautiful people ,but take responsibility.

Lorna

Yes.   And active, actionable steps.  For example, again this is not about you, Ann cause I feel as though I’m I am one of your students as well, through the wondrous Tony Stockwell, because Tony as you know, talks about this issue head on in his classes. I can’t say every class but most of the classes that I attended, he talked about, he talks about this this issue, and I don’t know if he took active steps in recruiting people of colour but you do see an increase over the years and I have had the opportunity to know him since about 2010/2011 and I’ve noticed that there have been increases of people of colour in his classes and in in some other classes of world renowned mediumship teachers, spiritual practitioner teachers ,that there is an increase, but we’re not there yet.  If in fact you go along with just the percentages, African Americans here in the United States represent 13% of the population, so does that mean that we should strive for similar numbers or similar representation in our classes or even that we might have 50%.   W`hy not?  Because we were so far behind aren’t we, in exposing and encouraging people of colour to be involved in spiritual practises.  

Ann

So Lorna, you are this beautiful amazing leader of people, how did you get to this position, I mean what is your life story if you could summarise that for us, as to what led you to this work?

Lorna

Well I’m going to respond to your question in two different ways because I think one response has to do with what makes me motivated to talk about these issues of isms right?  And in addition, you’re asking what let me to spiritual practises?

Ann

Yes

Lorna

Okay. So in answer to your question, there is an important theme in my own background and experience where I felt I was not seen and this didn’t happen, this isn’t with regard to my family circumstances because I felt very much seen within my family of origin but I’m talking about the external environment, where as I was growing up, we did not see people of colour on televisions, in magazines, in the radios.   I was telling someone yesterday when I was growing up and we would see a person of colour on TV, we would be so excited we called the whole neighbourhood and all the family to go and watch, because it was something that was not present.  So I do want to emphasise to you that I grew up in an urban area in in the city of New York.  But nonetheless talking about it from a sense of being seen, being recognised, being validated, seeing myself as, in equal standing with white people, it just did not occur.  And I was in school during the Civil Rights movement so I was inundated with the documentaries and the pictures of black people being assaulted, the fire hoses set upon them, the dogs.  I remember seeing the Edmund Pettus Bridge that they talk about quite a bit that was aired on TV, and the scenes of people being beaten, unarmed people being beaten. I remember to this day the four little girls in Birmingham Alabama that were killed by men that hated them.  They didn’t know them but hated them and bombed a church.  So this very much has been a theme in my life and these things that I talk to you about, I have been impacted by and even as an adult I have had unfortunate experiences where I faced complete and utter potential for devastation through some of these isms that I talk about.  I mentioned to you that when I was in Graduate School because I did decide I was going to be a social worker and I was in a very prestigious Ivy League institution and I always have been a hard worker when it comes to school, you know, my grandmother who was from the Caribbean, she would say, your teacher’s your best friend, she also said man and education don’t mix, she also said that, so I remember some of these things, but anyway while I was in the end of my second year, I think, I had one of the professors who happened to be white, who just had just this negative vibe towards me, she, I met with her, because she had problems with the paper I wrote, and she got up over me in my face and pointed her arthritic finger at me and she said, you will never become a social worker because you people can’t write.  I’ll never forget it.  One day I think she’s gonna probably come to be in one of my readings and she and I will be able to hopefully find some resolution to this experience.  And I was so shocked with her saying that, I didn’t know what to say, I was shocked, and then of course I got angry but I knew I couldn’t express my anger.  So again, just to, not to go on so much, these issues have been, these experiences of isms have been very much a part of my upbringing, my experience and my professional career, because I taught for many years in graduate schools of social work .  And my subject was ethno-cultural issues in social work practice and also racism, sexism, oppression and diversity in social work practises, those were my areas.  So I spent time, not only in lived experience but did quite a bit academically, studying, researching, doing even some scientific presentations on the extent to which we understand these isms in our lives.  So this has been very much a part of me but back in maybe 2008/2007 even, I began to feel with all of my work as an administrator and manager and working for different state governments and really quite high up there in cabinet level positions, in organisations, I felt as though there was something missing now you can imagine with doing all this work and by the way I’m also a wife, mother right, but still I felt something was missing and a couple of things happened.  I began to feel that there was the potential for healing others in my hands, just out of the blue.  The other thing was that I got connected with a gentleman on a radio show with numerology and began to study numerology with him and through his numerology groups, it was a weekly group, wonderful group, we studied numerology and we also, there was a self-help component in it.  And besides that, through his group, I began to study and have weekly sessions with a woman with a group that had women and people from all over, Canada, New York every, the South, and she was a medium, a shaman, a healer and so I met with that group for quite some time and then somewhere around 2010, still seeking this yearning I had for something more, I began my studies in mediumship and I was already intuitive.  By the way the teacher that I mentioned that told me I was never going to be a social worker, she said to me you also an intuitive social worker and that is not good social work.  So you see there was some recognition there already of my intuitive work but the mediumship blossomed really in minutes.  I did a meditation and it just flowed,  just like that and so I’ve been studying and practising ever since.  So you see these two things, I thought these two things were going to be separate once I got into the spiritual practises you know, and I was going to let all this other stuff go, but spirit had other plans.  And so I often would receive guidance to begin to infuse the spiritual practises with the information and with the years of study that I had performed years back and bringing it into the spiritual realm, because it needs to be there.

Ann

And are you still studying Lorna, numerology, or how do you use that within your everyday, or your life or don’t you?  Have you just let that go now? How does that work for you at the moment?

Lorna

Well, you know Ann, numerology is an ancient practise and I would be less than honest if I didn’t say it’s something that I utilise in my one to one readings. It’s only recently that there seems to be a burgeoning interest among spiritual practitioners, in seeing it and utilising it, so I am a person that in some respects goes with the flow, and so since there’s interest and this is a skill that I have, I feel as though I need to respond to it and this is why I am hosting a workshop, October the 3^rd, and also was just on a podcast regarding my numerology practise and if there are people that are interested in having a numerology reading, an analysis, now what people have to understand, it’s very different from mediumship and in some respects it is different from an intuitive or psychic reading although I use my intuitive and psychic skills in the course of the numerology reading and analysis, but much of the work of the numerology reading and analysis, occur outside of the one to one reading.  What I mean by that is, it takes a lot of time in doing all of the mathematical analysis of the different aspects of the persons inner and outer personality as well as the larger issues of the universal energy of where we find ourselves presently.  So then, once we do all those calculations, then we begin to look at the various themes in the persons analysis.  What are the themes, what are the important aspects, are there different aspects of the persons numerology reading that are in conflict with one another that they need to be aware of?  Do they need to open themselves up to various inner feelings that they may have that are impacting their pursuing their goals?  So it’s uh, I hope I’m doing it justice, it’s, I’m just giving you the very introductory focused ideas about it but I think it’s a very useful tool for people, so that they begin to understand the energy of numbers and how the energy of numbers impacts them in a very individualised and specific way.

Ann

And so if people can’t make your workshop on the 3rd of October because I have a feeling this podcast might go out slightly after that date, if they email you, they could perhaps put their name down for your next workshop for numerology work or come to you for a private reading for numerology?

Lorna

Yes absolutely, thank you so much and they can also friend me on Facebook and see that there would be a posting about any upcoming workshops on Facebook.

Ann

Perfect and you spoke as well about your trance healing and healing others with your hands that came intuitively to you and I know that you’re working in the area of trance at the moment and exploring that for yourself. Do you want to speak a little bit about trance healing and what you might offer there?

Lorna

Yes, well first of all I will tell you, as I worked on my connection with spirit and spirit persons, I began to feel as though that connection intensified and in readings that I even received from very stellar mediums, they often would tell me I hope you realise Lorna that there are times you dip into trance.  You may not realise it but you kind of dip into it and as they encouraged me, I never saw myself as a trance medium, I always felt like you know, that those were people, you know, kind of over there, but as I began to work with Tony Stockwell and others, and develop my trance abilities or faculties, I decided that this is something I would pursue. So I entered in a ear year-long apprenticeship with Helen de Vita who you know, is an Arthur Findlay tutor and done has has done wonderful work in mediumship and trance healing and so forth and during that mentorship, although she told me it was more of an apprenticeship for me than a mentorship because she said, and I say this with humility, when I performed the trance healing as part of my studies, she told me, you were born to do this work Lorna you do understand that.  So I feel as though in the course of doing trance healing that spirit is working with me and working through me in a very strong and personal way, so that I can hopefully impact others in serving spirit, by attending to their healing needs.

Ann

And people who are listening to this podcast may not fully appreciate what it really is, can you explain that?

Lorna

Certainly, the way I practise trance healing is perhaps different from others.  I do trance healing that is both trance and mediumship and in my work thus far, and I’ve done trance healing in groups and I’ve done it on one to one with individuals and often times with me, it starts out with mediumship, where I begin to call upon the spirit practitioners that I work with, so that they can intervene in whatever it is that the person is experiencing that requires trance healing.   And I I see all sorts of different things, where they are actually working on the person, but then what often happens is, is that it moves into trance state, where I am being used by the spiritual healing practitioner to speak through me what it is the person who needs the healing requires. So, this is how I work, this is not how everyone works. Now separate and apart from that, I do study trance in and of itself and I am able to do trance mediumship as well, but that’s separate and apart from the trance healing that I do. I’ve also had the opportunity to conduct a class on it on, because people are very, very interested in this and so I had a class last year on it, trance healing bringing healing to life because I wanted to communicate to students and others that participate, that this is a way we can bring healing to life, that it can be observed, it can be felt, it can be communicated thought to thought, that it is a real way of bringing it to life and bringing it so that people can fully experience it, and achieve the opportunity for healing various issues.  Now I do want to say last, that this is not just about physical healing and because I have an immense background in mental health and addictions, that often my spirit practitioners use me to address emotional issues that the person may be experiencing, that also as because we are mind, body and spirit holistic beings right?  So that things that may have an emotional component that the persons physical problem may be impacted by this emotional problem, they used to me to talk with the person about emotional challenges such as trauma.  Trauma is a very big thing for people and the extent to which trauma that they may experience for whatever reason they don’t recognise or they do recognise but don’t see its impact in their day to day life. So they use me to talk with what it is the person needs, in terms of healing, that has a physical, an emotional, a spiritual, etc

Ann

And your trance healing and the trance work that you do and the trance teaching that you do can all be done online cant it?  It doesn’t have to be now face to face.

Lorna

Absolutely.  You see, when I studied numerology and also as I said earlier on, the the woman that was a medium, and a shaman and so forth it was all on the telephone.  We didn’t even have the ability to look at the faces so I’m very comfortable that energy is something that is palpable ,that is something that is through telephone, through even not seeing the person, that we can connect energetically and have the opportunity to fully understand and work with the energies that are presented to us.

Ann

And Lorna talk to us about your childhood as a as a young girl growing up in New York, were you a very spiritual family, or was your intuitive side encouraged by your family or discouraged?  How was it for you growing up as a child?

Lorna

That’s an interesting question, because I would say we were a very, intuitive family, we were a religious family but not the religion of you know you gonna go to hell and damnation.  I was encouraged to see the more loving aspects of religion but I grew up very, very spiritual my grandmother, absolutely maternal grandmother, was absolutely a medium and a psychic and would often times impact the household with a vision, or one of the clairs that she experienced and she would not, well, just to give you a quick story, my mother was one of 10 children and five survived, 4 girls and they all were getting ready for this big dance.  My eldest aunt did designing and sewing and she would make them these glamorous outfits.  My mother could do hair and so she would do their wonderful hairstyles and they were looking forward to going to this dance for weeks and it was just oh, all the preparations and the bathing and the perfumes and the make up in everything and the mother agreed that they could go, coz she, you know, she figured that they would look out for each other and they did.  But anyway somehow as they were getting ready to go to this dance, just out of the blue my grandmother, maternal grandmother, came to them and said you’re not going to the dance, and they were like Mama how could you? They were crying, they were carrying on, she said take your clothes off, wash the make up off, you’re not going to the dance, you’re not going. At the end, well they of course lamented and cried and carried on but she would not allow them to go to the dance.  The following morning they learned that a fight had broken out in the dance.  People were trampled upon trying to get out the way and of course they felt it was some vision that their mother had that they would have been harmed if they went to the dance.  So she, she was very involved, I grew up in an extended family, each of the sisters had their own apt, I grew up with my aunts, my cousins, my uncles, and of course my grandmother, who was the matriarch.  She believed in a strong spiritual connection to God, strong.   She would talk to God, she would sing, she lit candles, on certain holidays we were encouraged to fast and to be quiet and build our relationship with God.  So I could very much easily move into being psychic or intuitive work and then medium ship my mother studied astrology would do charts on people so it’s all in my DNA .

Ann

Gosh, you are lucky in that sense, very lucky to have, well considering this is the work that you’re doing, you’re lucky to have had that as a background.

Lorna

Well that’s true. I would say my father probably, he does now agree with it, but I don’t think it would have been something my father would have agreed on.  He was the intellectually focused person, the accountancy was his background and it’s interesting, I was a poor student in school around mathematics, algebra, and so forth and here I am involved with numerology.  He probably would have been proud of that, and probably is proud of that, but because he was very involved with numbers and did people’s tax returns up until maybe a month or so before he died.

Ann

Gosh.  Lorna, I know you’re involved with an organisation called Helping Parents Heal, can you tell us a little bit about them?

Lorna

Yes, I was encouraged by a one of the leaders of the organisation that handles the assessment of recommended mediums, this organisation is focused on ways in which parents who lose their wonderful children, how can they achieve healing and offering them various paths towards that healing.  So I was encouraged to contact the gentleman that does the assessment of mediums that are recommended to this group and there was a very intense assessment process that I went through to be credentialed as being certified to be one of the mediums that they recommend. And again I will say with some sense of incredulousness, that parents who lose children come in all description’s, unfortunately.  Parents who are Latin X or Asians, or African Americans or African ancestry they all, unfortunately, have the experience of loss, and this is a major loss.  My mother lost my kid sister, and this was part of the many traumas that my mother experienced, so the loss of a child is horrible.  We all think as parents that we are going to outlive our children and when they die before us, it is devastating but again I tell you Ann, and I didn’t seek recruitment or participation for this group for this reason but there were at least the last time I looked, there were no mediums of colour that are participating in this group and though I am absolutely open to offering mediumship and healing to anybody that seeks my service from this organisation, or any organisation, the fact that there were no mediums of colour is very important, I think, because I have heard from clients that associated with this at this group and you won’t be surprised but they say to me, you know I was looking for a person that looked like me, right?  That looked like me, that I could come to and feel comfortable in obtaining mediumship services.  I’ve heard from two or three people from that group.  So there’s work that we need to do, both as teachers and mentors but organizationally as well.

Ann

Yes, thank you for sharing that Lorna. I know that you yourself have just recovered from an illness, the dreaded illness that we all are terrified of catching.  Would you be prepared to share a little about their experience with us?

Lorna

Absolutely Ann, and I believe I mentioned this to you, but I have been completely open and honest that unfortunately I contracted Covid in August, despite the fact of being very careful.  I am one to ascribe to wearing a mask, washing your hands, staying in the house, all of these type of things I ascribe to and encourage my family to do likewise.  So, we have been in pretty much since March when this all began in a New Jersey and unfortunately the county that I live in, had the highest numbers initially around Covid and it remained high for quite some time but nonetheless I had been totally upfront and honest with having it because I felt as though the issue of stigma comes up. Stigma meaning some external mark that has a negative feeling or a pejorative feeling or thought towards the individual who has the stigma and I am very much one to challenge stigma, whether it’s talking about the various isms that we’ve mentioned thus far in the interview or whether we’re talking about it in terms of trauma, various abuse that people suffer, sexual abuse, physical abuse,  people that have unfortunately suffered mass incarceration here in the United States due to being profiled for really the path from being in their own homes but being profiled and the path being to incarceration and as we know we have so many people of colour that have been incarcerated for many non-violent offences and the gaols now are completely overrun look at the numbers in California and other places with people that really should not be there but nonetheless so that’s my rant about stigma at why I have I posted it on Facebook, people knew about it and shared the information.  I shared the information with my clients as to why I had to cancel appointments coz I feel very much stigma is something we need to attend to.  But besides that, I will tell you, I have had various other, unfortunately, diseases in the past.  Some people say this is like a flu, this was not like a flu to me.  I’ve also had meningitis, so I know what that feels like. I had natural childbirth with my children because at that time they weren’t doing the different types of anaesthetics and I was told that anaesthesia would harm the babies.  So, I am no stranger to pain and suffering unfortunately but I will tell you my dear, unequivocally that whatever this virus is and however it was manufactured or developed to harm, it is doing a very good job of it. Not only, as you know, we have I think somewhere in the neighbourhood of 190,000 deaths here in the United States, we also have I think 5 or 6 million that have been impacted and I was one of the five or 6 million.  There’s no way to say it other than this.  In the acute phases of the illness I thought there were times I would die and that I was going to die.  There was no one really I could say that to, because if I said it to my husband and my son and my other two daughters, they would have been so devastated that either they would have just maybe lied on the floor next to me and felt like they were going to die or I just can’t tell you how bad you feel, and that the resources that you could utilise to bring yourself back some way somehow, you have no resources.  There are no resources you have. I couldn’t pray and I consider myself a prayer warrior, right?   I can pray for others, I can pray for myself, I can do trance healing, right and call upon my spiritual practitioners to help. I couldn’t even utter a prayerful word. The best I could do is I could say creative spirit.  I could say one word and I could communicate both to people that I knew that were, the outpouring was wonderful.  I could communicate to people that I needed prayers, but other than that it was anguish, it was devastation, despair, and a sense that I might not make it.  but that’s the best way.  I couldn’t eat.  I couldn’t even chew to eat. I felt as though I might be able to eat if somebody else chewed whatever and gave it to me and it was soft,  maybe I could swallow.  They got small bits of water in me and that was the nourishment for a good I would say, two weeks.  Something that we need to pay attention to.  It is a devastating disease and you don’t have the resources within yourself in order to fight it.  The fight came externally, the prayers, I had healing meditations that were done on my behalf.  Those energies, that vibration is what pulled me back to life, because there was nothing that could be done in the hospitals. My hospital experience was, to be very honest, awful, and in my second visit to the hospital, I was given the vision, that although they demanded to admit me, I saw myself going in the hospital but not coming out.  So I continue to recover Ann, I am not I would not at all say I recovered, I think it’s gonna take probably a good another two months, before I begin to have some semblance of structured recovery, of anticipated recovery because right now there are various aspects of my body mind and spirit that have not at all fully recovered, and that there isn’t something that I can depend on and say oh, you know, I can do exercise, or I can go to the supermarket without anyone, or I can drive, you know, to New York without anyone.  Right now, I would put myself in kind of a disabled class.

Ann

Gosh what a frightening experience but it is beautiful to hear the amount of love and affection that was shown to you and I know that I was on some of the Facebook groups that you’re also on, and I know a lot of people were praying for you, and sending their love to you and sending their light to you, and it’s only right that we should do, because you’re such a fighter for other people, you’re such a protector of others, and even just being in this interview with you, you make me feel very safe, like I always want to be around you and I don’t want to be walking through the world on my own, if I had Lorna next to me, you’d be my perfect guide through life.

Lorna

Thank you so much.  That’s so beautiful, thank you.

Ann

Well it’s true, and I’m really delighted that you’re back with us, so I know there will be a little bit of recovery time, but hopefully you will soon be back to full health and where can people find you Lorna if they would like to come and speak to you about any of those things you’ve mentioned in this podcast, if they want to come and train with you, have a beautiful reading with you or just get in contact talk about all kinds of stuff.

Lorna

Oh lovely I welcome that.  They can contact me by email at lornajhines@gmail.com or they are welcome to take a look at my website, www.lornajhines.com.

Ann

Great, so Lorna, what are you going to be focused on now, I know you are focusing a little bit on your recovery and taking the necessary rest, but where’s your, where is your work taking you over the next four to six months would you say?

Lorna

I’m going to be devoting a lot of attention to the Mediums of African Ancestry site.  We’re going to be having a number of different programmes that may be of interest to your listeners.  We have one coming up on the September 19^th, I know this is going to be aired after that, but I mention it nonetheless Siobhan Carlson will be talking about spiritualism, mediumship and healing and some very important things to know in terms of people of colour and the representation of people of colour, and then on September 25^th, we’re going to invite Brandi Khan, who is also a former student of Tony Stockwell and I was in workshops with her. We are going to be looking at the ways in which some of these isms that I talked about, negatively impact the spiritual development of people of colour.  So we’re going to go into that in a more focused an intense way, so we begin to understand the impact and how impactful these isms are among people of colour who are spiritually practising, and 3^rd, we are going to be hosting in October probably mid to end of October, a dialogue on how to be an anti-racist medium.  As you know there is a book out called How To Be An Anti-Racistwho the books premise is, if you do nothing are you really being an anti-racist? And I think that’s an important question to look at, so we going to be hosting that dialogue.  We had a very successful dialogue previously on black lives matter and the extent to which the whole black lives matter aspect impacts spiritual practitioners.  So I think some of that will be talked about around the anti racism, and we also have just received confirmation that we will be involving Monique Baker and Carolyn Wilkins; both mediums but are very much musically oriented, and we hope to have a just grand extravaganza music speaking as it relates to people of colour.  So those are the events that are coming up, there may be more.  As in between we do a lot of meditations and spiritual healing, spiritual healing on racism, and as I said, we have a diverse, multicultural group that are all about learning.  So quite a bit of that will be my focus as well as completing my book, because I’ve given myself a deadline to complete it. I am looking for someone that will help with publishing, so if there’s someone out there that is motivated and interested, it’s not just about mediumship and spiritual practice, it is much broader and expanded. So that is definitely part of it and I’ll continue my teaching and I will continue my work with students, I like this one to one,  and I also should mention I joined Reverend Janet Nohavec’s ministerial programme, so I hope in a year or so, I will also be a minister, although many tell me that I already show a lot of the attributes of a minister.

Ann

You certainly do, you will be an incredible minister, well you already are, Lorna, an incredible minister and that would just, people will benefit so much from your love and your kindness and your generosity of spirit and your protective side, and your drive to seek equality for everybody, to see all souls as equal.

Lorna

Yes, yes.

Ann

Lorna J Hines thank you so much for joining us today.

Lorna

Oh, thank you, it’s a pleasure, a wonderful, wonderful, pleasure and I, I support you, I hope you will continue this very important, important work and that blessings abound, and the direction and the focus and the path that you need, that all obstacles will be removed, so that you can continue being the voice of spirit, being the ambassador of spirit, in a very expanded but yet impactful way.  So God bless you Ann and I’m so, so happy you’re my friend.

Ann

Thank you so much Lorna that means the world.

Ann

Lorna J Hines everybody, what an incredible woman.  Do look her up on the internet and visit her Facebook page – Mediums of African Ancestry – there are some very interesting articles posted up there and it’s a very vibrant and positive community to be involved with.

If you are enjoying these podcasts, please can I ask you to go to iTunes, find the show Psychic Matters – scroll down and you will see at the bottom a little buton you can click to write an honest review.  These are so important in helping move the podcast up the podcast charts.  And I’d love to get to number one, one day.  I did get to no.5 once upon a time in the UK charts which was just fantastic but wouldn’t it be wonderful to get to number one?  That way, we could reach so many more people, who might really benefit from all the wisdom, advice and guidance that has been so generously shared by my many guests to date.

I’ll be back with you in two weeks’ time.  Meanwhile,, take care everybody, my name is Ann Théato, and thank you for listening to Psychic Matters.

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